Refugees

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Michael J Malone, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    Our Governor and many others proclaim the need to openly accept refugees from Syria. The Paris attacks have just occurred. The attempted or possibly attempted attacks in Hanover were just thwarted. (That the area where a large part of the Wife's family lives). Spoke with a few of them just a while ago. Two are dismayed at the blind acceptance of immigrants that many in the US are proposing. They want to know why the European experiences are being ignored. The following were referenced to me along with many more.

    Muslim raping of women epidemic in refugee camps - http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/muslim-raping-of-women-epidemic-in-refugee-camps/

    Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps' - Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html

    Report exposes rampant sexual violence in refugee camps - http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/10072015

    Syrian Muslim Refugees Bring "Culture of Rape and Violence" - http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2...gees-bring-culture-rape-and-daniel-greenfield

    Germany: Migrants' Rape Epidemic - Gatestone Institute - http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany

    Women and children fleeing ISIS killers in Syria then RAPED - http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/613612/Refugee-crisis-sexual-violence-Syria-migrant-camps

    Syrian street gangs are beginning to run rampant in some parts of Europe.

    One cousin in England is fit to be tied because private firearms ownership is very curtailed in the UK. Many are demanding much more permissive ownership and use laws. Many are calling for re-introduction of Capital Punishment after a dozen savage murders by immigrants including this lady, my wife's cousin.

    Sort of fit into Veterans Day (a militia), people wanting to go to the range, our children safe in, under or near our flag and (not mentioned on the forum) Tom Wolf's determination to pack the Commonwealth with more unemployed while essentially missing Vets Day.

    Mike - WE3L
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  2. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

    Each of these citations you present is hysterical, and generally misleading, if you're read slowly and closely.

    I cannot tell you if rape is rampant or not among the refugees. But each of these reports is slanted in the extreme.

    Acceptance of refugees is our heritage, and I will point out that my leaning to allow them to enter is guarded by protecting ourselves from allowing terrorist insertion. We must carefully question each of them. We are capable of that. Conversely, put yourself in the place of these terrorized immigrants. What if they were your relatives?

    I am not in favor of of blindly accepting all, but I do lean toward the humanity of accepting them.

    Also, we must compare them with our own homegrown nutjobs and fanatics, left and right. (Some are in congesss.) We must also compare the so-called "rampant" sexual attacks with what we know is happening in our country, on our own campuses, in our own military. I think the sexual assault claims in refuge camps are difficult to support for what was reported in your citations. I am offended with unvetted websites taking one case and generalizing that the attacks must be are widespread. Reading your citations here shows me the lack of journalistic ethics and the lack of even the most elementary reporting and editing.

    Let's not get hysterical. Let's take one step at time. Let's take a breathe. Let's be cautious. And above all, let's be humane.
     
  3. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    "United Nations inspectors and the British Government have warned sexual abuse is "widespread" even in charity-run refugee camps - the very place persecuted women go looking for salvation.

    Rape, degrading body searches and sexual harassment is commonplace in prisons controlled by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and in towns and cities controlled by jihadi groups and anti-Government rebels.

    "The UK Government has vowed to spend £5.2million on projects preventing sexual violence in Syria."

    The reported websites and articles are the articles that some of our European counsins are reading and believing. How is passing along what others are thinking a lack of ethics? Who am I to edit others beliefs? Where, as shown in the three lines quoted above, is any hysteria. No claim has been posted that the included sites are any end-all information that must dictate views. They are merely reflective of the concerns voiced to me by a few of my wife's European relatives. (My wife is an immigrant). I merely passed on concerns that were expressed to me. I would hope that knowledge of such concerns might lead to investigation by ordinary citizens and voters here in the US as to whether any such true concerns should be held by us, on this side of the pond.

    Wouldn't awareness of a possible stuation be the first step in taking things one step at a time. Wouldn't caution dictate that some ear be given to unwanted and unliked points of view or is auto-editing, or refusal to hear ALL others at least a bit, to be the rule?

    There are nutjobs and fanatics in all societies and, yes, in ours, some are even in Congress, the Administration and the Courts. I agree that such and even evil exists in our land and hold that these exist in all cultures, societies and nations.

    Our Constitution forbids slavery, yet federal immigration statistics, FBI statistics, Southern Poverty Law reports, along with many others, indicate that upwards of two thousand children are smuggled into the US each year for the sexual human trafficing. This is slavery. This is evil. Other reports, including ones from major US TV networks, have shown large networks for human sexaul trafficing, usually of adults, exist in such renowed cities as Las Angelos, San Fransisco and New York. This is slavery, too; this is evil also, and it is right here at home. But it is largely, almost wholely, ignored by Congress and the Administration.

    In my leaning to humanity, in my desire to be humane, or better yet, in my desire to be a decent man, I wish to know of any such evil and wish to act against the evil. Outright dismissal the reports offered may not be humane; it might actually be burying the head in the sand.

    When a governor states he is ready to accept refugees in this humanitarian crisis, I want him, ABOVE ALL, to be cautious and I want his examination of facts to be examined by others and by us the citizens. I want the Governor questioned, vetted and re-vetted.

    When individual lives, safety and selfworth are possibly at stake, caution for self must trump humanity for others.

    Ok, I'll stop for a breath, now.

    Mike - WE3L
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  4. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

    Please read my post again. I did not say or imply that you lack ethics. I cited the lack of journalistic ethics in the cited writings. Unless you are the journalist who wrote one of those articles cited, I was not referring to you.
     
  5. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

    The article you quote appears to be from The Express in London, but you don't say.

    Let's look at each paragraph.

    First it says sexual abuse is widespread, even in refuge camps, but it doesn't support that statement at all. Therefore, it is false.

    The next paragraph takes a turn. It said searches and assault take place in Assad's prisons. Again, no attribution.

    The next paragraph said the British will spend month to stop abuse in Syria.

    Later in the story the British Foreign Office minister is quoted as, “ . . . many of those who flee the conflict remain extremely vulnerable to sexual violence.”

    It doesn't say it is happening. It says they are vulnerable.

    It also said a UN panel advisor spoke of sexual violence “ . . . by husbands, male family members, police, government employees and NGO staff.” Not only refugees then, I would suspect.

    And finally, it reported a migrant man was beaten for converting to Christianity.

    That story is what I refer to and substandard reporting, unethical, hysterical. Nowhere does it say rapes are reported as happening for sure, but The Express wants you to believe it. I think when we read a news report, or anything, we should actually read and evaluate it.

    This story is a gross disservice to the reader.

    The article you quote appears to be from The Express in London, but you don't say.

    Let's look at each paragraph.

    First it says sexual abuse is widespread, even in refuge camps, but it doesn't support that statement at all. Therefore, it is false.

    The next paragraph takes a turn. It said searches and assault take place in Assad's prisons. Again, no attribution.

    The next paragraph said the British will spend month to stop abuse in Syria.

    Later in the story the British Foreign Office minister is quoted as, “ . . . many of those who flee the conflict remain extremely vulnerable to sexual violence.”

    It doesn't say it is happening. It says they are vulnerable.

    It also said a UN panel advisor spoke of sexual violence “ . . . by husbands, male family members, police, government employees and NGO staff.” Not only refugees then, I would suspect.

    And finally, it reported a migrant man was beaten for converting to Christianity.

    That story is what I refer to and substandard reporting, unethical, hysterical. Nowhere does it say rapes are reported as happening for sure, but The Express wants you to believe it. I think when we read a news report, or anything, we should actually read and evaluate it.

    This story is a gross disservice to the reader.
     
  6. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    The London Times November 19, 2015

    The battle is on for Muslim hearts and minds

    David Aaronovitch


    "How do we condemn atrocities carried out in the name of Islam without alienating the majority of moderate Muslims?


    Of all the people killed by terrorism last year, 51 per cent were slaughtered by just two organisations: Boko Haram and Islamic State. Although white supremacists have killed more Americans this year than any other extremist group, nearly all global terrorism is committed by people claiming to act in the name of Islam."


    The London Times is purported to be a reputable news reporting agency and publication. Today, Brits were treated to a stark picture that can lead some of them to believe that sheet and hood wearing thugs were roaming our streets in droves as shown in Griffith's novel and the following movie, "The Birth of a Nation." The image was nestled in an article that ostensibly discussed terrorism committed by some Islamic believers.

    In this article, the white supremacists quipped about are not identified. They are, in fact the prison, street and drug gangs such as the Skinheads and Arian Nation or the drug dealing Biker gangs that rove throughout the US, Canada, the UK, Sweden. Also not addressed are the Crips and other non-white supremacist gangs that exist.

    The article is written so that an ill picture of the US can be thrown out there.

    It is suggested that better vetting of news sources be done. I suggest that all news sources need to be utilized and each individual reader must learn to pick and choose, ignore or accept, and-so-on- and-so-on. I suggest that no news agency is actually reputable.

    The French developed the term the fourth estate to describe news organizations during their revolution. I hold that the four estate, in almost all societies, is actually, now, a fifth column. Read them all with caution; I believe that the excerpt above shows even the renowned have reputation issues.

    To not acknowledge a possible news source is the greater disservice

    Mike - WE3L
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  7. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    From the Daily Mail - November 19, 2015

    Is this legitimate news regarding what might be viewed as Islam's own Crips?

    Jewish teacher is stabbed on Marseille street by three men who shouted their support for ISIS

    upload_2015-11-19_10-46-13.png
    The men, who were riding on scooters, with one wearing an ISIS T-shirt, approached the teacher who was walking down the street in Marseillle, pictured, before hurling insults and stabbing him.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    CCTV catches terrifying moment Christian father-of-six was brutally set upon by hooded thugs with a pickaxe handle who targeted him as a 'blasphemer' because he converted from Islam

    upload_2015-11-19_10-46-45.png
    Nissar Hussain, from Bradford, suffered a broken kneecap, a fractured forearm and a concussion after being beaten with a pickaxe handle because of his faith on Tuesday. The 49-year-old is currently in Bradford Royal Infirmary following surgery after the unprovoked assault outside his home in Manningham. The assault was caught on Mr Hussain's home CCTV and is being reviewed by West Yorkshire Police, who have confirmed they are treating it as a religious hate crime.

    From the Daily Mail! Accurate reporting or disservice.

    A reputable British news source or a rag.

    You, the reader should decide.

    Mike - WE3L
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  8. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    Tony,

    I believe that each source has its name in the attached link.

    Mike - WE3L
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  9. Michael J Malone

    Michael J Malone Active Member

    I have meant to offer some points of view to others that were offered to me by the European side of my wife's family. I might be a bit to sensitive, but I believe that the conversation is turning a bit Orwellian; it is tending towards right-think and right-talk. I never have seen myself as one that needs to babysit other adults as they read. Umbrage has been taken to offered articles even though they that do not portray any persons or peoples as a whole in any light. The articles are simple and, if a reader wishes, can lead to other, more substantial information. That is the only reason they were offered to begin with.

    Information, as can easily be seen in the flamboyant article titles, is often offered in a different color in Europe. They have striptease national news shows and nudes showing how undies can make one look better on open TV.

    The offered articles come from a flash of news postings that crossed Europe They began shortly after Special UN Envoy Angelina Jolie Pitt gave a speech at the UN. From UN archives -


    A Quote from the UNHCR

    "On Friday April 24, 2015 – UNHCR Special Envoy Angelina Jolie Pitt appeared in front of the UN Security Council in New York to raise awareness on the ongoing refugee crisis in Syria."

    A Quote from Mrs. Pitt's speech to the General Assembly that day;

    "I think of the mother I met recently in a camp in Iraq. She could tell you what it is like to try to live after your young daughter was ripped from your family by armed men, and taken as a sex slave."

    This line established itself in the European news cycles and persisted for about six months. It spurred investigations into refugee conditions in many regions associated with the Syrian War and Syrian refugees. It persists in the minds of many Europeans and Brits. Many investigators claim to have found conditions lacking and petitions and reports flew left and right. The government of Hesse received a petition generated by several women's groups to address women safety and security issues at a refugee camp in Geissen, a city in Hesse. The capital of Hesse is Weisbaden. Weisbaden and the general area of Rhine Main has several reputable newspapers including the Wiesbadener Kurier. Their archives will hold information about the offered articles at the beginning of this thread.

    I believe that I am finished with this thread(period) If anyone has new, better or updated information, I would not mind receiving it but I do not wish to persist in a thread that is becoming a non-thread and could fruitlessly continue to the point of adnauseam. I am also done with this thread as I have no interest in anything that might even resemble arguing. Before I argue with another, I believe I should actually know him or her so that meaningful debate could occur.

    Enjoy your day.

    Mike - WE3L
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  10. Tony

    Tony Moderator Staff Member

    No matter how much you try to smother the hysteria in the articles, it bleeds through these articles. Factual citations would be most helpful to advance any position in a political forum.

    I'm not arguing. I'm calling those reports hysterical and unethical juxtapositions to advance a premise not based on any fact presented in the article.

    If you consider this thread argument, however, so be it. If you don't want to argue with someone you have not met, then why would you ever advance any points in a political internet forum of mostly anonymous posters? Your position is untenable.
     

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